Transcript 0:00 [rock music] Hello, and welcome back to theosceola.com's Seminole Sidelines. 0:43 My name is Nick Carlisle, staff writer and recruiting writer for theosceola.com, joined as always by head editor Bob Ferrante on this Monday afternoon. Bob, we have made it. It is game week. 0:54 It is truly time to start getting excited. There's the build-up, there's the hype. Game week just means a little bit something more. Sorry, SEC, this actually means more. 1:05 Game week actually means more, uh, when you get, when you get down and you can really start counting down those days and those hours. But big news coming out of, uh, Florida State this morning. 1:15 Mike Norvell releasing the first depth chart for Florida State football for 2025. You were there earlier today at the press conference. 1:24 Why, why don't you start out just, uh, kind of recapping your thoughts on what Mike had to say, maybe, uh, your, your biggest takeaway from, uh, some of the coach speak this morning? 1:33 And we're gonna, we're gonna get into everything. We're gonna go position by position, go back and forth, just talk about some of the surprises and some of the, 1:40 some of the, the stand out names that have surprisingly a- appeared on this depth chart. I did not expect to see Chase Loftin in the depth chart, and he's there, you know, as, as a receiver. 1:54 I think that was one of the ones that sort of eyebrow raised, but it's very understandable. 1:58 You know, we had written a little bit in the spring about position versatility with this roster, and if you've seen Chase Loftin's highlights, you go, "That looks like a receiver. 2:06 That looks like a bigger receiver who could be a tight end eventually." But I think with, uh, with the Lane McCoy injury, he's out, you know, for this game, Mike Norvell calling that, uh, today. 2:18 You start looking at other options. You start looking at who's dependable, who can you really count on, and I think Chase Loftin's name popped up makes a lot of sense. 2:26 The other one, Nick, I didn't fully expect to see Ashlyn Barker as the starter, starting safety at one of those spots. But we've heard a lot of, of good things about how Ashlyn works. 2:38 I think Mike Norvell said today hasn't played a ton of football, you know? Injured I think in high school. Junior college, he basically one a year, sat out. 2:46 They were trying to preserve a lot of his eligibility, uh, trying to get him to a, a power school. Uh, so a neat backstory for, for Ashlyn to be in this position. 2:56 I think how many guys are gonna appreciate being on that field on Saturday? I think guys like Ashlyn Barker, you know, Columbus area, a little close to those, those Alabama fans, right? Mm-hmm. So I mean, he's... 3:08 That's a guy who I think is also going to appreciate it. I think those were two of the biggest maybe eyebrow raisers, but, but there are, there are some others too. What, which ones stood out to you? 3:18 [laughs] Doni Hibbert from the top rope being thrown off the Hell in a Cell by Undertaker. 3:26 [laughs] Like that, that is the degree of which the shock and awe took over my body when I saw Doni Hibbert lining up behind Earl Little at the rover position. Now, maybe that, that... 3:39 There could be a lot of different things in terms of what that means. 3:42 For all intents and purposes, that could've been Conrad Hussey's spot before he got dismissed from the team, what is it, a week and a half ago at this point? That, that could all... That, that could be all it is. 3:53 That could be just a nod to Hibbert, who of course is a former walk-on. Obviously no walk-ons now. Everybody's on scholarship. 3:58 Could be just a nod to a guy that has clearly worked his butt off, and we have seen him work for all the years that he's been at Florida State. How much is that actually going to come into play? 4:09 I feel like Earl is probably gonna be playing 99.9% of those snaps. But you never know in the event of an injury. Uh, that, that was an interesting name to see there. Um, I, I would have... 4:18 But even so, over somebody like a Max Redman, a true freshman. 4:21 You wouldn't think that Max Redman was gonna see the field this year, but even to just not be on the too deep and having that walk-on spot, the walk-on take that spot, that was super surprising. 4:31 Um, just in general, uh, a lot of younger faces. You talk about Loftin, which a, a little bit surprised to see him listed as a wide receiver. 4:39 I would have expected him to be listed as an or on the tight end side and with an or distinction. 4:45 The fact that Florida State wasn't really rushing him to put on weight this spring and summer I think kind of told you a lot about where they see him in his contributing role this season in particular. 4:55 See how he does as a pass catcher, and of course that is you want. That is what you want out of Chase Loftin. 4:59 That's why they went so hard after him when they recruited him, his ability to be really a, a, a match-up problem everywhere on the field. 5:08 It's interesting to see him being specifically listed as a wide receiver though, Bob, because it, it, it's, it's... 5:15 Sure, it's his skill set, but especially with the fact that he was dinged up on that first practice that we got to saw, that we got to see way back in the beginning. 5:23 Now, it didn't look like it was anything serious, but he was limited for the rest of that first week as well. 5:28 So to see him get that, that starting, or not starting nod, but that, that two deep nod at wide receiver as opposed to tight end, I'm really curious. 5:36 What's kind of your opinion of all of these younger names in general that are being seen on the depth chart? Guys like Boggs, who we, we kind of assumed was gonna get that starting nod. 5:47 To see it actually on paper is fascinating. Shamar Arnos, uh, on the two deep, that corner is a true freshman. Uh, some others that we'll get into a little bit later. 5:58 I think this is gonna be a storyline for as long as we're gonna be talking about this. Right. Good that there's true freshman playingBad that there's true freshmen playing, if you know what I mean. 6:10 Like, like where, where is it? Is it, is it an indictment of the upperclassmen that you were ha- that you're being overshadowed by some true freshmen? 6:20 Or is this really true talented freshmen that are coming in, and it's something to show, to your point earlier before the show, this is something that you show your 2026 kids and say, "Look how many young guys we're recruiting," or, or "How many guys are contributing here," right? 6:35 And it's an interesting discussion, like you wrote over the weekend, 100 plus prospects are gonna be in the stands at Doak, and that's a select group. 6:41 That's not just 100 guys who, "Hey, I'd, I'd like a seat for Florida State and, and Alabama, please." 6:46 It's these are the guys that, you know, Mike Norvell, Derek Ray, the coordinators, the coaches really, really want to be in the stadium a- and hopefully focusing on Florida State and, and not Alabama as a prospect. 6:58 I'm, I'm very curious about this. I think Mike Norvell's got seven true freshmen in the depth chart, if you include Bruno Royce a- as the backup kicker. 7:08 We, we may not see him at all, but potentially you're gonna see half a dozen true freshmen on Saturday, and I think that's a big, big thing for Mike Norvell to show the 2026 class these guys are, are getting some snaps early. 7:23 That's a big deal. Uh, guys wanna play. I think that's a determining factor. 7:28 Now, on the other hand, it's not great if, if you are a veteran who's put in the work for years and years and years and you're going, "Man, this guy just got here. He's already, he's already beat me." 7:38 There's no transfer portal, man. So go to work. Work hard. This is a competition. I think we all know Mike Norvell's depth charts are pretty fluid. 7:49 Um, this is gonna change week to week, game to game, situation to situation. Um, I... But it's about getting your, your athletes out there. And I think we, we think Chase Loftin, that's an athlete. 8:01 That's getting somebody out there in a position to help you make plays. We're also, I think for the second year, seeing a tight end in a little bit of a different role than, than what he would be long term. 8:14 Like, we did see Landon Thomas and Omari Williams split out, not true tight ends last year. We're gonna see Chase Loftin potentially, again, split out, not a true tight end. 8:26 Uh, Florida State's recruiting some really good athletes at this position, and I think, again, get those guys on the field. That's, that's the bottom line. Let's just rip the Band-Aid off, Bob. 8:38 Let's go position by position here. We've got our handy dandy custom layout here. Love it. Love it. This is the official depth chart that Mike Norvell and Florida State Football released, uh, earlier this morning. 8:51 And, you know, there, there are some obvious position groups here that when you take a look at it, you're like, "That's a no-brainer. Duh." 8:58 But I think when you go through a lot of the positions here, there's one or two names that you just kind of take with you and say, "Oh, either, A, that hype was justified, or, B, what are you doing here?" 9:13 Like, it, it, it's... There's, there's at least one name per position group, and that's exciting. 9:16 'Cause I feel like last year we all went in with expectations on who was going to be at what position, who's gonna be starting. There, there seemed like there were more surefire starters than there were this year. 9:29 There was, there was definitely a more of a pecking order to things, where the competition this fall has seemed to be at another level, and that goes for a lot of position groups that you see on the, the depth chart here. 9:40 Quarterback, I don't think there's any surprises here. Maybe if you wanna call it a surprise that Brock Glenn is two over Kev- over Kevin Sperry, and of course there is that or designation there. 9:50 You thought that maybe, just maybe, with Brock's injury in camp, Kevin Sperry might take that number two slot. 9:57 And sure, I think there is a very good chance, and we've talked about this on the show before, that there is a good chance that he's going to see some valuable reps against East Texas A&M and, uh, Kent State in weeks two and three. 10:07 But are, are you surprised at all to see Brock number two there? 10:10 It, it, it's, it's not really a surprise because you think he is supposed to be there, but considering the camp injury, there may have been, like, a little devil on the shoulder that said, "Eh, Kevin Sperry is impressing, especially Mauzan. 10:22 He might find himself in the number two spot." I think if the opponent's different, you're definitely willing to put Kevin Sperry out there in a number two position. If this is 10:34 Duquesne or, you know, pick your, your weaker Group of Five opponent in a, in a guaranteed game. But because this is Florida State Alabama, because of the juice behind it, I wonder if you want a little bit of experience. 10:45 A guy like Brock Glenn, just the nerves are gonna be more settled than Kevin Sperry. I'm not saying- Yeah... Brock Glenn is a better quarterback. I just think for this situation, it makes sense. 10:59 There is a roadmap, an ex- explanation for the why. Yeah. And of course, Jalen King expected to redshirt this year. This isn't really a surprise to not see him on the depth chart, even though, um, may... 11:11 There, there's always kind of that conversation when you bring in a, a guy that's moving up a level who does have experience. You bring him in for that experience. But it was the plan to redshirt him. 11:20 Not a surprise to not see him on the two deep initially. Going down to running back here, and I thought this was interesting. 11:25 We've kind of gotten a little bit more clarity on where that Jalen Lucas, uh, guy is gonna show up in terms of this depth chart. He's, he is showing up at running back. 11:33 He is showing up in the starting spot above Usman Chroma. I think it's an interesting distinction right above that Roydel Williams or Gavin Sawchuk. 11:42 I think you and I were probably on the same page when we thought, "Okay, Roydel one, Usman Chroma two in both the starting positions on the depth chart, and maybe some or designations there." 11:51 But Jalen Lucas getting the start there at that sec- at that second running back, and I think an o- it's, it's super hard not to supercharge the or designation, but I do find it interesting that there is an or designation between Roydel Williams and Gavin Sawchuk. 12:06 Do you?Yes, and let's get it out of the way first. I mean, Mike Norvell is listing 12 on his starting 11 on offense. Right. He's done this historically. He's done two running backs historically through past years. 12:21 How does that change in the, the Gus Malzahn offense? How many times do we see two running backs? 12:27 Again, I've kind of said consistently through the off-season, Jalen Lucas, you can call him a running back, an athlete, a receiver. Figure out a way to get the ball in his hands through offense or special teams. 12:39 To me, it's hard to compare Jalen Lucas to Usman Chroma 'cause almost like y- you're, you're comparing different types of music- They're polar opposites if you want to [laughs]... different types of, of movies. 12:49 It's not the same thing. It's just like get them both out on the field because they can be difference makers, but they're not comparable in any way. No, they're so different. 12:58 I mean, there's a 5'9" scat back and a 6'2" freak of nature. They're, they're polar opposites on the spectrum there. Um- Yes... it's [laughs] I didn't, I didn't notice that. 13:08 Like, I, I notice it, but I didn't kind of put how different those two are until you said something. A big name that's missing, Cam Davis. Yeah. And I, it... I don't wanna overreact to that, but 13:24 it has been relatively consistent since this new staff got here that Cam Davis was, let's just say, not the favorite in terms of what his skill set is 13:38 to the, to some of these new coaching staff, to Malzahn, to, uh, well, primarily to Malzahn. Let's just call it what it is. Uh, that, that was consistently, it's like, ah, they're not sure about Cam. 13:50 They like other backs better. Now we get here into fall, Cam Davis isn't even on the two deep after being... I, I can't rem- Was he a starter last year? 13:59 Was he a starter for the Ireland game on that depth chart at that second running back position? I think David Johnson- Do you remember?... I think played five running backs on that first drive. 14:08 Cam did start games, but what David Johnson said this year when he was asked about, about Cam in camp, he's got to learn to be a better pass blocker. 14:17 I think that was remarkable that all the discussion about how good Chroma is in pass protection, and then there's the storyline of what Cam has to improve in that area. 14:26 Again, that's very, very telling that the coaches are, are messaging out that through the media to the fans. 14:33 Yeah, it's gotta be a really heartbreaker for, for Cam Davis too, because you know that he loves this place, and you know he wants to be out on that field, especially after the season that he had last year. 14:42 He felt like he probably needed a mulligan, wanted to do some, do some things better, slim down a little bit. 14:48 Not to say that he's not gonna get reps, because there are definitely other guys here that are not listed on this two deep that are probably gonna get reps. Sam Singleton's gonna get a couple of reps. 14:56 Kazia Holmes is gonna get a couple of reps. You would assume that Cam Davis is gonna get a couple of reps too, but that, that, that talent level that 15:07 was not in front of Cam last year due to injury is installed this year. So it is going to be a little bit more difficult to be a contributor, especially if your pass blocking isn't up to par. 15:23 Down to the tight ends, and I thought this was interesting. I, I w- found it absolutely fascinating that Amari Williams was number two here as opposed to Landon Thomas, and there is an or des- designation there. 15:34 But also no Marquason Douglas, no mention of Bryson Estes. 15:39 Now, I wasn't expecting them to be on the two deep necessarily, but I do think that when you're pairing the two run blocking, pass blocking tight ends in there, and they're off the two deep, it kind of shows you a little bit more about what Gus wants to do here in terms of the versatility of the tight end room. 15:59 If you wanna bring up versatility on the tight end room, there's probably no two players better than Randy Pittman and Amari Williams, who obviously Amari Williams is, uh, is he mentioned multiple times on this episode? 16:10 No, he's mentioned at tight end first, I think. He's, so he's not even listed at jack, which is- That's interesting too, right?... which is interesting. Yeah. 16:17 So I think, I think I was on record earlier this year think, saying, "No, he's definitely going to appear more at tight or more at defensive end than he is at tight end." 16:26 And hey, you're not gonna be right all the time, but it is interesting that, that Amari is here at, at tight end right behind Randy Pittman. 16:34 And then Landon Thomas, not necessarily surprised to see him kind of third in that pecking order, considering he was banged up during the fall. But to not see Biscuit there too is, I think is really interesting, Bob. 16:48 I think if you're, again, if you're putting your potentially most productive guys out there who can catch, who can block, who have versatility, Randy Pittman's the, the easy answer, and I, I still think you could argue Randy Pittman might have the most catches by the end of the season of any Florida State receiver running back tight end. 17:08 Randy Pittman might have more than anybody by the end of the year. I would put Amari Williams out there quite a bit too. Um, does this tell you how much he's going to play jack? I'm not buying that. 17:19 I still think he's gonna factor in on, on defense, maybe against different opponents, especially opponents that don't run like Alabama's going to run. I'm not sure you wanna put an Amari Williams out there. 17:30 We'll get to jack down the road, but just for the tight end discussion, I think it's important to address Amari might be more valuable for this game as a tight end. 17:40 Landon Thomas coming off that injury, I think we know he's a guy who can be a good blocker, um, also very athletic. Not as athletic as the two guys ahead of him on the depth chart, though. 17:51 I didn't expect to see Bryson Estes here. I get that. 17:55 The Marquason Douglas thing is very, very weird, but I would still say is it possible Florida State goes three tight ends in a goal line type of situation, and you want to throw in some of these bigger bodies? 18:08 Do you wanna throw a Bryson Estes out there? Do you wanna throw a Marquason Douglas out there? 18:12 Again, just because they're not in the depth chart, you said this earlier-There still could be value as far as what they bring in certain situations 18:20 I haven't studied Gus enough to say he does use personnel groupings with three tight ends but I just think in a goal line type situation you might say, "Oh, this tight end room is very, very intriguing." 18:32 Mike Norvell talked about just the, the adaptability that the different body types there, there's a lot to play around with i- if you're Mike Norvell and you're Gus Malzahn. 18:43 Do you think the rigmarole during the spring window of Marquise entering the portal and coming back made a difference at all or is that just, is that just fan casting? Is, is that just projecting? Because it... 18:55 I don't know. When, when he first came back during the, the fall window, I thought, "Okay, surely it's going to be a room of Amari, Landon, Marquise." Then I, I can't remember if Randy Pittman was committed that time. 19:06 I can't remember who came first, the chick- the biscuit or the egg. [laughs] I can't remember who exactly came first, but do, do you think... I don't know. 19:16 It, it, is it projecting to say that maybe that was a sign of things to come that, that Marquise popped in the portal momentarily spring, maybe, maybe he saw this coming and decided just to come back and stick back anyways because there weren't gonna be b- any better options for him? 19:30 Is, is that a wild theory or do you think they're reading some tea leaves that may actually be something to- It-... something to hit on? Yeah, so this thought did cross my, my mind today too, right? 19:42 Um, so peeling back the curtain just a little bit, Marquise did go in the portal. It was reported- Right... by a couple news outlets. He did. We, we talked to him. 19:51 I talked to him after the announcement that he was going in the portal. He said, "I want to go somewhere where I can be a bigger part of the offense a- as a pass catcher." Totally get it. 20:01 It's your last year of college football. The reasoning makes perfect sense. What happened after that as far as did his mom or dad or agent or high school coach just not hear from the right people? 20:14 And between, I think that was a Saturday and then a Tuesday where Mike Norvell confirms, you know, Marquise is still on the roster. There's a reason why. Yeah. It was a short- It was a short- It was a short window. 20:25 But it was a weird, weird scenario, and I, I think Mike Norvell took some criticism for taking back Marquise quite honestly. So how does all that factor in? 20:37 I think Mike Norvell's gonna play the guys that are going to be impactful at the end of the day, but I just think this is a really good tight end depth chart too. Yeah. And I- Worlds better than last year's. 20:50 I've, I've been, I've been hitting that, that button throughout the off-season. [laughs] So I think this is a better tight end group, and if I'm wrong, I will own it, but I think this is a better tight end room. 21:01 Uh, Jason Perdue coming in with a question, "Are we happy to see veterans getting passed on the depth chart by freshmen who transfers out due to getting left off?" 21:09 Uh, Jason, we kind of had this conversation earlier in the show, but just to kind of recap, it's kind of... It... Unfortunately, it's probably a little bit of both. 21:16 There are definitely some freshmen that are getting some playing time here. That's an indictment in terms of the, the... how the room has shaped up. 21:24 But there are other cases where I do think that these freshmen have genuinely come in and earned their spots. One of these kids, Javon Boggs, who we're gonna talk about in a second. 21:33 But there are guys like, uh, Shamarc Arnos who has gotten a lot of, a lot of praise from Norvell, specifically in the, in the second half of camp leading up to this, to this, this final week of practice. 21:46 He's kind of showed up more and more. I think it's a little bit of both, and you kind of have to take it glass half full, pinch of salt. There are definitely some prizes on this roster or on this depth chart rather. 21:59 If you're looking for a guy who might transfer out due to being left off, Cam Davis, I feel like there's a danger there, um, for, for reasons that we've kind of already talked about on the show. 22:15 I think there's a danger there, uh, whi- which sucks to say because as I said, he definitely loves this university. He, he remained committed to this, this university all two or three years of his recruitment process. 22:27 So I think there's a big danger there. And if... 22:30 And look, there's always gonna be some members on the offensive line who just can't make the cut or can't win out in their position battles that end up hopping in the portal just because that's such a competitive c- uh, position group. 22:39 But if I, if I had to pick one guy, and, you know, we're gonna go through the defense and the rest a little bit later, I think probably Cam Davis is, is, is the, is the name that pops out to me. 22:50 Uh, wide receivers, Bob, unless, unless you have anything to add to that. I think, you know, if you watch the press conference, Mike Norvell mentioned this toward the very end about freshmen. 23:00 He said he wouldn't be surprised if by the midpoint of the season double digit freshmen are contributing, um, i- in some manner. Now again, what that means, snap counts, uh, not necessarily on the depth chart. Right. 23:12 Special teams, special teams can be included here. If he wants to include special teams, he can, he can probably find 10 if, if we're already looking at seven including a backup kicker. 23:21 So I think the, the puppies are pushing for, for playing time. Again, that's a great thing for the re- recruiting effort, uh, in the big picture. It's... What do you think about that? 23:33 I mean, it's, it's interesting because the difference in context between the puppies pushing last year, it was a youth movement by necessity or really desperation if you wanna call it that. 23:43 Panic maybe is a word that I would use. Panic, desperation, lack of other options. To see somebody fresh and pushing for starting time this early, it's a little bit different, and th- it makes me wonder 24:01 maybe it, it... maybe you do lean more heavily into, okay, no, these freshmen are just talented. You know, they hit on some freshmen. 24:10 But you're never really going to know until you see the product on the field and, you know, maybe these freshmen, uh, these freshmen are gonna have freshmen mistakes. You know? 24:19 That, that's gonna go with the territory.But maybe they're, they're... It maybe really just is the case that they hit on some freshmen I think I think they really did hit on Boggs. 24:29 Now, Boggs is a case where, yeah, this wide receiver room is pretty, eh, it's a little shaky at best But with everything that we've heard from players, coaches, it has been consistent. It has been wire to wire. 24:45 From the moment that he got here in spring till seeing his name on the depth chart today, Boggs has been wire to wire. So the context in how these freshmen are being brought in, 24:57 winning the starting job in fall camp versus being brought in out of fear, desperation, panic, hair loss, uh, clipboard slamming on desk, it's definitely a little bit different, wouldn't you say? 25:12 Yeah, and I think a, a couple things that, that kind of hit me too is you can almost draw up a depth chart to some extent 25:19 based on the transfer portal and who doesn't depart early through the NFL draft and through the portal. Right. 25:24 Like, look at the offensive line, and we'll, we'll get there eventually, but that offensive line, we could've mapped that out in late December around New Year's Day, you know based on- [laughs]... 25:34 who you've brought in, who you're paying money through NIL then, revenue share, and NIL, NIL now. You have those types of scenarios. I also think, is this, Nick, a little bit of shaping Mike Norvell's, um... 25:52 I'm not sure what the right word is, but his notoriety as a portal king type, and it worked in '22 and '23, and it didn't work in '24. Is he trying to shift that mindset among mom, dad, high school coach 26:08 prospects and say, "You know, yes, we're hitting in the portal, but we're throwing these young guys out there because they are ready too"? 26:17 I, I do think he's, he's trying to, um, trying to message that to a lot of prospects a- and their significant helpers in the decision-making process. 26:27 Yeah, I honestly, I didn't think about it necessarily that way because that i- there is that stigma with Norvell. I mean, he was the portal king for two or three years there. Obviously, last year was what it was. 26:38 You have all these guys that were committed to you for the 2025 class, and obviously there was a large number of those guys that came on after the season started as they had to pick up the pieces of this recruiting class. 26:51 But there are definitely a number of them that committed to the program for a bunch of different reasons, and then the early playing time was a big incentive in terms of why you stuck around despite going 2-10. 27:02 Guys like Kevin Wynn, who by the way, I fully expected to see his name behind Darryl Jackson at nose tackle if he didn't get hurt and wasn't unavailable for this u- upcoming game. 27:14 Lorraine McCoy and Kevin Wynn were the two that were name dropped by Norvell today as specifically being out for this next game. They are expected to have a more speedy recovery. 27:22 I think this is more about protecting them from theirselves than anything. We could see Kevin Wynn's name at the t- the, the second nose tackle slot next week. There, there, there's- Absolutely... 27:32 there's definitely an argument to be made there. But you have all these guys that came in 2025 that playing time became more of a more reality for them, and 27:43 now v- like, that re- to, to, to say it is one thing, but to actually see it and see it lived out is another thing. The, the [laughs] it sticks in my mind, Bob, but 27:54 Usman Chroma saying in multiple interviews leading up to him flipping to Florida State, "Mike Norvell has never lied to me. He ain't lied about one thing." Mike Norvell ain't lying about playing time right now. 28:05 There is, there-- If you are a 2026 recruit, there is playing time available for you at Florida State, and I think that's really interesting. 28:14 Uh, wide receiver, I know [laughs] we've, we've, we've tried to segue to wide receivers like three times now. Squirrel White, Deuce Robinson, Javon Boggs, not a surprise. 28:23 That, that's, that's the three that we were hearing. Makai Dansby, BJ Gibson, and Gavin Blackwell, Elijah Moore, two pairings of the or designation at that specific position. 28:35 You and I talked last show about who's, who is re- ideally going to be that second team of wide receivers. Do you think that they got it right? 28:42 Do you think that these people or these prospects, these young kids rather, do you think this is who should be in these positions? Does, does, does it pass the eye test for you? I think so, and I'm very curious. 28:53 You know, they've said, I think, five or six receivers will play. Obviously, they're listing, what? Eight guys. That's not realistic. Um, you know, how healthy is Gavin Blackwell, for example? 29:05 I'd still rather see Elijah Moore versus- Right... Gavin Blackwell. I think, I think Elijah Moore is ahead of Blackwell right now, to be honest with you. Right. That might be a seniority pull, but... 29:16 And I, I mean, there is a difference between Makai Dansby and BJ Gibson too, I mean, two totally different body types. Right. I, I think Dansby, again, they called him a long strider. That's, that's track speed. 29:28 I- if you wanna run a, a couple of, couple deep flies, you're gonna probably send Makai Dansby out there at least a couple times, maybe if for no other reason to, to wear out a couple DBs and make them run, you know, pretty, pretty fast, pretty, pretty hard to keep up with Makai. 29:43 I think Makai has a chance to, to be a home run type. How often is he gonna get the ball, I think, is a decent question. I also lean toward you're gonna see a lot of Deuce, Squirrel, and Boggs- And Jalin Lucas... 29:58 and Pit- and Pittman and Jalin Lucas. Like, if I'm thinking about who are the five guys who are gonna catch the most passes on the roster, regardless of position, I think, I think we probably named them. 30:08 Those are kinda gonna be the five, and then you're gonna start to get into, okay, how much does a ball find Makai Dansby? How often does it find Elijah Moore? 30:19 If I'm banking on a guy to, to have a second year jump, I, I still think Elijah's a guy I really wanna see more of. You know, this is- Yeah... this is his year to, to get that jump.Uh, question here. Oop, wrong one. 30:31 Uh, thoughts on Shaheem. He started multiple years in a row, now listed as a backup. Seems like a program buy, but how comfortable are we that he stays? 30:38 Well, this is his final season of eligibility, so he's gone one way or the other. I believe that's right, Bob. I think he's a red shirt senior at this point. I think he's done after this year. 30:47 I think he's a one-year But to the point, to see him as a, to see him as a backup, personally, I'm not surprised to see him here, given the chatter behind the scenes in terms of... 30:58 I mean, it, it was evident relatively early on that they, that some of these young safeties were overtaking not only Conrad, but overtaking Shaheem as well. I don't know what happened, Bob. 31:10 I, I don't know where the lights turned off for Shaheem. I just don't think he's the same player anymore. Uh, there, there is something that has changed with his mindset or, or something to where 31:25 it, it, it has held him back or made him regress. And I think there are players on this roster that are hungrier than he is. I think that that was shown last year in terms of his attitude, in terms of how he played, 31:39 and just his attitude in general. And granted, we're saying this about the team's leading tackler last year too- Right... which is kind of crazy to say. 31:48 But f- something, some- there was some switch in the track along the trip that has just made... Very similar actually to, like, 32:01 Darius Washington and Marie Smith, it feels like last year, to where you, there were guys that had started for multiple years that you felt you could depend on, and then just something changed, whether it was the coaching or the responsibility or the chemistry with your team. 32:18 It, like, something changed to where y- y- you were just not performing at the level that is expected of you. I, to see Ashlyn Barker there, to starting at that, at that number one safety spot, is kind of wild. 32:35 Uh, and that's no discredit to Ashlyn Barker, who, I don't know if this was prior to the show or the beginning of the show, where this is a guy that came from JuCo, step up. 32:44 It's taken a little bit more time to come along, but the, you, you saw him flash multiple times last year. To see him in front of Shaheem, Bob, is maybe not surprising, but definitely eye-opening. 32:57 And I think when we did the depth chart over the weekend, projecting what we thought, you know, Mike Norvell could show, I, I think we had Edwin Joseph starting, KJ Kirkland also starting, and now in, in Mike Norvell's depth chart, he's got them as an or at one safety spot. 33:12 I think there's still a little bit of Tony White's push. Remember that, that epic kind of speech about do you wanna have a seat on the bus or not? That's going back to August 10th. 33:22 It feels like it's been a long time since then. Yeah. [laughs] But how much of that Tony White push i- is the reality for a lot of these veterans, is something that, you know... He, he didn't wanna name names. 33:34 He didn't need to name names, but I think people needed to hear, um, the head coach of the defense is not happy, and I, I think that... How does that resonate? 33:45 The Shaheem issue is, is maybe related and maybe not, but I think there's a lot of you need to hear the, the tough talk, and I, I think Shaheem can still factor in here. 33:58 Uh, again, this depth chart is going to- It, it'll probably be rotated. Yes. Seriously, either every, either every two series or side to side. Ooh, looks like we lost the graphic there. 34:09 I don't know if you can, if you can pull it back up, Bob. Um, it might be my end. The old laptop died, which is, which is fun and exciting. I don't know if you have the graphic. 34:21 Maybe I can send it to you, get it back up on the screen here. Technical difficulties are always exciting and fun. Maybe pres- maybe if you pull it up as a presentation. I will try. 34:34 Uh, in the meantime, uh, just going through the, the, the offensive line. I, I think everybody that we expected to be that, in that starting five is there. But what Herb, what Herb Ha- Hand said 34:49 later last week about your top five not necessarily being ordered one, two, three, four, five across each position. You know, sometimes your second-string tackle is going to be your fourth-best offensive lineman. 35:01 Or, or basically there was some flexibility to it. I think the order in which we saw the starters are unsurprising. You have Hansen left tackle. Uh, I can't remember if Medley was left or right. 35:14 I got, I gotta be looking at the depth chart right now. But Pedibon at center. Pettis at right tackle. And then you, and then you have some 35:22 flexibility at right guard, whether that be Rizzi, who is listed as an or at multiple positions. Obviously, Chavez-Thompson, the true freshman, getting a shout at center. 35:32 It's 'cause Florida State doesn't have any other centers. Uh, [laughs] but in terms of the offensive line, in terms of who's there, it doesn't sound like it. 35:39 And at least talking to Nor- or listening to Norville, it doesn't sound like everything is 100% there or 100% finalized. 35:48 The starters are all there in terms of where you expect them to be, how they're gonna contribute, but maybe at right guard, maybe figuring out who's next up, five, six, seven, 36:00 that, that's where, that, that's, that's where there's decisions to be made. I think this offensive line is, is essentially what, what we all thought. 36:10 Again, going back, you know, you make these decisions in December when you recruit some of these high-end guys. You're paying them a lot of money. Again, looking back at NIL rev share. 36:21 I-- The Chavez-Thompson thing kind of came out of nowhere until Herb Hand said it maybe last week. I didn't really expect him to be in the mix as a center. I kind of thought that makes sense for Jacob Rizzi. 36:33 That makes sense for, um-It makes sense for, uh, Richie Leonard maybe to slide over, because Herb had suggested, hey, um, you know, your-- one of your starting guards could be your backup center, for example. 36:50 I even was questioning, hey, is, is Micah Pettis the right tackle? Is he your left tackle if, uh, if Gunner Hanson is injured for some reason? 36:58 So I still think there's some, there's some shifting pieces on the offensive line. Again, 37:06 it's-- there's who you trust in camp, then there's who you trust in, in an actual regular s-regular, regular season game, and, and it is Alabama. Yeah. 37:18 You know, this-- if this were Duquesne, if this were Kent State to open, you're probably throwing out some other options and just testing out the continuity to see how it works. 37:29 But I think again, when, when you've got Alabama as that game one, you make a lot of decisions based on who am I going up against on that defensive front when you are the offensive line coach? 37:40 Because y-you can't make, um, you can't make the personnel mistakes and put them in tough situations when you know what's going to happen, because they... 37:51 a-an Alabama defensive line is, is completely, you know, legit as far as what kind of pressure they can put against you and, and pressure Tommy Castellanos. Let's see if I can get this back into working here. 38:06 Uh, sorry for the technical difficulties everybody. Uh, we'll get this depth chart back up here. Moving on to, to nose tackle or defensive end, James Williams and Ja- and Jayden Jones. 38:15 Jayden Jones definitely a name to be reckoned with in terms of the first couple weeks. 38:19 Fell off a little bit ter- in terms of being mentioned in the, in the last week or so, and maybe that's just, hey, we're focusing on other guys here. The other guys are flashing at different times. 38:28 First of all, how good is it to see Jayden Jones on this two deep? And second of all, 38:34 to be behind James Williams after all is said and done, obviously James Williams is gonna be your pass rusher on that, on that weak, that, that weaker side. 38:42 What, what do you, what do you make in terms of who's lined up on this defensive line? And obviously, you know, you got Darryl Jackson, Daniel Lyons, uh, on, on, uh, nose tackle. 38:52 I gotta look at the rest of the depth chart, but we will get it up momentarily, guys. But, but how are you feeling about how that defensive line has shaken out after, uh, maybe, maybe a little bit of a call-out by Tony? 39:02 I definitely think Tony was talking about some of the defensive line when he's talking about he need to see s- he needed to see some more effort, uh, from, from his defensive line. 39:11 I think the biggest takeaway from the defensive line is these are bigger, bigger bodies, and it's not, it's not Alabama big. That's not, not the discussion I'm trying to start. It's not SEC versus Florida State. 39:22 It's you're throwing some big defensive ends out there. There are no, uh, let's say Patrick Payton type- We did it... defensive ends or, or the leaner guys. And, and shout out to Nick for getting the depth chart back up. 39:35 Yeah. There we go. 39:36 But, but when, when you've got Jayden Jones at two fifty-seven on, on one edge instead of a, a, here's a two hundred and forty pound, um, pass rush type exclusive guy, I think it, I think it shows you that they know Alabama's gonna try to run a- and run it to dictate throughout the game. 39:54 So Florida State's gonna match it with, with the biggest bodies, potentially the best run stoppers that they've got. Um, so Jason Jenkins, again, Tennessee experience. He's seen Alabama, knows some of those linemen. 40:07 I think that's valuable. Darryl Jackson, obvious that guy was gonna be there. James Williams, a guy you trust in terms of the three three five scheme. And then yes, Jayden Jones. 40:17 I, I think you're gonna stand up and, and probably applaud a lot of guys on Saturdays. 40:22 I think that's among those guys that a- as a fan you're gonna say, "It's great to see Jayden Jones back," because you need this type of depth. You need six, seven, maybe more guys, because injuries happen. 40:36 You need to have that type of depth for a rotation up front. 40:39 To see Jason Jenkins at that starting spot on what we would assume is that strong side, defensive end spot on the, on the, on the defensive line, to see him there starting after being banged up for the first week and a half or so of fall camp, how impressive is that? 40:55 Uh, 'cause I, I, I was honestly expecting to see Deontay McCray get the start there and have Jason Jenkins be second because of that injury. And also shout out to Mandrell Desir. 41:05 The Desir twins have been brought up consistently throughout fall, as well as guys that are maybe, I don't wanna say punching above their weight class, but definitely making an impression early with 41:17 their work ethic, their drive, their pursuit, their explosiveness. Maybe not so much developed physically to be on that defensive line starting right away, but they're gonna give you those effort reps. 41:29 So shout out to Mandrell Desir and of course Darryl as well. But to see Jason Jenkins starting there, are you surprised it's not Deontay McCray? 41:37 Again, this is one I missed on, I'll, I'll admit it, on Saturday when we published our depth charts. I had Deontay McCray, who again, we've heard has had a really, really good camp. 41:45 Um, Jason Jenkins, though, I think you're going a little bit more on just... I hate to say the raw talent is better, 'cause it doesn't... Like Deontay McCray is very talented. Yes. 41:58 But man, Jason Jenkins, I think high-end is a little more high-end. I would also argue if Jason Jenkins was on a little bit of a, of a pitch count, so to speak, how, how much are you going to the bullpen? 42:10 How much are, are you leaning into Deontay McCray there? Whereas a guy like James Williams maybe can go a little bit more without being subbed out. Um, look, I, I think this is gonna be an interesting discussion. 42:24 How much can you substitute your defensive front? How much does Alabama try to go first down tempo and push and push and push to prevent Florida State from substituting? 42:35 So I think there are some storylines within the depth chart, within the substitution patterns, but-It's cool. It's really cool to see Jason Jenkins get that nod. 42:46 If, if so, if they go to a four-man front or like a bear front, who's gonna be that fourth guy in? Is it, is it McCray, do you think? 42:53 Do you think it's probably Williams, Jackson, Jenkins, and then McCray, or do they bring a linebacker down? Like, it, it... 43:00 Because we've, we've heard so much about how multiple this defense is and how many fronts and looks they're gonna throw at you, I don't wanna say that this, that this depth chart doesn't matter, but does it... 43:11 If they're gonna throw multiple down sets at you, uh, does, does it... 43:17 Is, is, is everything gonna be so flexible on the defensive side of the ball that none of this is ever gonna really [laughs] matter in the end, do you think, or is this actually pretty vindictive of where these guys are gonna be lining up for the most part? 43:28 Yeah. I, I was kicking that around too earlier. It's like, okay, are you really gonna have Omar Graham and, and Stefan Thompson- As a jack? [laughs]... 43:38 as a jack over, over throwing Deontay McCray in with that starting three? So if, if you go four-man front, I'm gonna keep Deontay and Jason Jenkins out there, 'cause I want, again, big bodies, stop the run, et cetera. I, 43:52 I just didn't see... No, no trashing Omar Graham or Stefan Thompson. I didn't see them as the, the described jack type in terms of what the coaching staff was really looking for. But I would also argue you... Is... 44:07 How much of this is potentially matching up toward Alabama, toward the quality of that offensive line, the quality of that run game, even without Bam Miller? I, I just wonder if part of this is just saying, 44:21 "You know, we, we like these guys for this particular game." But again, we're all kind of new to this three-three-five. Yeah. We've seen a little bit of it. We've watched some Nebraska tape. 44:31 I watched enough, you know, like you said, you know Nebraska is not just a three-man exclusive front. They're gonna go four. They're gonna go five. What we don't have a great feel for 44:42 is the substitution patterns, is some of these new pieces. Yeah, yeah, I think you bring up a good point. I... This is... It is important to note that this is gonna be skewed towards Alabama. 44:51 If you wanna consider it this way, Omar Graham and Stefan, and Stefan Thompson, they're gonna be your heavier hats as opposed to throwing an Amari Williams there at that jack position, which is con- What we are led to believe that position is more often than not going to look like. 45:06 That's going to be your flexible linebacker defensive end who can do a little bit of coverage, but primarily being used as a pass rusher there. 45:14 Uh, shout out to AJ Cottrell on the two deep behind Elijah Herring at what I would assume is that Mike linebacker position. This is a kid that loves to play football. He's a hard hitter. 45:27 He is going to give you those effort reps, and there, there are no walk-ons on, on... You know, obviously everybody's on scholarship, but being a former walk-on for Cottrell, this is really great to see him. 45:38 A little bit also concerning about some of those younger guys in the linebacker room, like a Jayden Parrish, who not able to crack the depth chart in his second year. Are you... 45:47 To what degree are you concerned that some of those younger linebackers are not cracking the two deep, or are you more excited in the fact that Cottrell is a, is a wal- is a former walk-on that we, that caught our eye frequently as a guy that's going to give you hard-hitting quality effort reps? 46:06 [sighs] Yeah, I struggle with this one. I, I, I expected to see three linebackers on a depth chart. Right, right. I expected to see three true options. I, I think Justin Cryer makes a lot of sense. 46:18 I think Elijah Herring makes a lot of sense. Um, I, I think we felt Blake Nicholson was gonna be a backup. A- and then again, the question is Stefan Thompson, how much does he play, 46:30 because that's a green dot type of guy. We haven't maybe discussed this a lot in stories or, or on podcasts, but, um, who is going to be wearing that green dot? 46:39 Who is the coach on the field who's listening to Tony White, or is that John Papuchis? Whoever. Probably Tony White, though, I would think. Yeah. Who's going to be the coach on the field? It could be Elijah Herring. 46:51 He's got some three-three-five experience with, with Memphis. I guess it could be James Williams, too. 46:56 But you start thinking about coaches on the field, getting guys aligned right pre-snap being very important when, when you're facing, um, an Alabama team. It's your first game. You got so many new pieces around you. So 47:11 I'm... I think JP didn't really... I think JP sold us on the experience and the depth of this group, and then you see an AJ Cottrell and you go, "Huh." Yeah. 47:23 Well- But when he said six guys, when he said six guys, I was counting AJ Cottrell as among those potential six guys as a linebacker, too. Right. Well, also c- is this a z- uh, is this a similar situation to... 47:36 Uh, we were talking, I, I forgot what position group earlier, where, 47:41 uh, somebody, somebody's injured and somebody takes that s- Uh, Caleb Lavalle is a guy that I think they expected to be in this spot, but he not only was injured in spring, he's continued to be injured in, or limited rather, in fall. 47:52 And does he line up in that spot if he's completely healthy? I would have to imagine that he was or wi- or would and will be in the future. 48:01 But that's no knock against AJ Cottrell, who again, has shown repeatedly over the years that he's been, that he's been here that he is going to give you reps that are full effort, full contact. 48:13 Maybe not last season when [laughs] full contact was discouraged by the former defensive coordinator in power. 48:20 That being said, he was gonna give you those reps, so maybe, maybe that has something to do with Caleb not being available for this early part of the season. 48:30 At least we assume it's going to extend through the early part of the season. Maybe this was truly earned. Uh, it'll, it'll be interesting to see. 48:36 I, I do think Stefan Thompson at jack is kind of one of those, eh, kind of moments where you d- you tilt your head and say, "That's not where I expected you to be." 48:44 But again, to your point earlier, is this really geared towards Alabama where you're going to be facing against a competent running attack with a mall of an offensive line?And you're gonna need some of those heavier, more brooding linebackers, uh, at the second level. 48:59 Uh, we, we've touched on the defensive backfield a little bit. I think Jabrill Peppers and Jerrion Ealy were, were easy shoo-ins to be starting at both the boundary corner positions. 49:08 Little bit surprised to see Charles Lester there as the backup to Jabrill. 49:14 I can't lie, I was expecting it to either be Quindarius Jones, who is listed as an, with an or designation there, but also was expecting Kai Bates to show up somewhere, and he's not on the two deep. 49:24 Now, it is worth noting that Norvell did say, and I, or, um, I don't know if it was specifically Norvell. Might have been Sertan as well. The sense is, is that this defensive backfield 49:38 is going to be changing a lot in terms of who's on this two deep, I think. You, you have a, a bunch of second-year guys, like Ricky Knight, like Kai, like Jamari Howard. 49:48 Now, Jamari is obviously extremely set back because he was out for the season last year. But you have guys that are gonna be on scout team this year that may poke up every now and again on this two deep. 49:58 So it's, it's not like this is going to remain the two deep in def- at the defensive back position until, you know, you both shall live and say I do, right? But Charles Lester being there 50:11 and not Kai Bates was an eye-catcher for me. And above Quindarius Jones, and again, there's an or designation there. How, how you wanna take that is up to you. 50:20 Are you, are you as surprised as I am to see Charles Lester there? 50:25 You know, honestly, and this is, this is terrible to admit, but I, I forgot about Kai Bates in, in the whole process of the discussion because I wasn't comparing the roster and who wasn't on here. But I'm with you. 50:36 I think Florida State's got a lot of options. I mean, you know, could you see a Max Redman jump up as a safety type? You know, is, is... 50:44 Are there more younger guys that we just haven't seen enough of, whether it was last year or they're true freshmen, who this depth chart is going to twist and turn, and we're gonna see, um, how many different changes can we see in this depth chart, not just week one, week two, week three. 51:03 But it, it, it could really evolve because, because the competition could be a lot, lot better across a lot of these position groups. Um, yeah. I saw Charles Lester in person in high school. There's an athlete there. 51:17 There's no doubt what he can do on the football field. Um, complete respect for him. I think he could play, he could be a returner. Like, there's, there's talent there for sure. I just don't know. 51:30 I haven't thought it through as, as far as, is Q better because Q's got a little bit more experience? Where does, where does Kai Bates, you know, in that competition with, with Lester? 51:42 Just a lot of different options and, and that's a good thing too, right? Like, if your favorite prospect out of high school isn't on this depth chart, don't go, "Oh, man." 51:52 I, I think this is a, this is a good thing that, that there is this level of competition. Absolutely. Uh, Trenton with the comment of the day that, it's a question that I think this entire fan base is asking this morning 52:08 when they, uh, they take a look at this depth chart. We talked about it a little bit already, but just, just because we're back on the topic again. Who the heck is Doni Hebert and what is he doing on my depth chart? 52:17 Uh, another one of these walk-ons that has found themselves with the starting position here. Or, or not a starting position, but mentioned on the two deep. My kind of thinking is, well, this is Conrad Hussey, but 52:31 he was just pissed off the team a week and a half ago. This would've been where, where Conrad Hussey lined up, potentially. But, 52:40 uh, it, it's still kind of like from the top row, off the rafters, completely out of left field. You poll 52:49 every single FSU beat reporter, whether it's us, whether it's War Chant, whether it's the Nole247 guys, Nole Game Day, uh, whatever have you, 0.0% of us 53:04 would have predicted that Doni Hebert would've been on the two deep this morning. But here he is, the boogeyman. I, I don't know what to make of this. I don't know what to tell you. 53:15 This, uh, this isn't even something that full transparency, at least for us, we even heard as a possibility. [laughs] For, for... Like, th- there was no, there was no mention of him by the coaching staff. 53:28 Oh, I thought Doni, Doni Herbert has done really good in, in practice over the last three weeks. Is it a placeholder? I don't... 53:38 And I don't wanna be disrespectful to Doni, because obviously you have to be able to play to be able to play at Florida State, right? But Bob, help me out here. Where... I don't think anybody knows where this came from. 53:49 I- is this, is this purely a situation where, hey, this was gonna be Conrad Hussey's spot, and now he's off the football team and we need somebody to place there? 53:56 Is this a situation where Doni has come in and truly earned the starting position? 54:00 Is this really, i- is this more of a formality where Earl is gonna be on that field 99.9% of those snaps, and hey, if, if, if, if, if L'Earr- if Earl happens to go down, Doni's gonna be the next man up? 54:14 Or are we truly [laughs] gonna live in a reality and not a simulation where they're gonna be rotating guys, and it's gonna be Doni Hebert out there with Shyheim Brown and KJ Kirkland on that, on that second team? 54:26 I, I think we see a ton of Earl Little. I think that's the s- that's the first answer. That's the safe bet. Right. Now, Doni... Okay, I'm just looking up his stats, 'cause I had no idea. 54:36 I'm not sure I've ever interviewed Doni. And I think it's Hebert, but I'm not 100% sure. Anyway. I think so too. Doni's played a lot of special teams. He's had 15 tackles. 54:46 I'd bet you almost all of those are on special teams, and it wasn't, like, a fourth quarter mop-up time type tackle. Well, it certainly wasn't last year, I can tell you that much. [laughs]Yeah. 54:58 I, I think this was the most left field because it just wasn't a name you heard a lot about... I'm sorry. You hadn't heard anything about in camp. And, and part of this may be too, let- let's be honest, 55:09 media being boxed out except for just what you hear, what your sources are telling you- Yeah... and I'm not asking my sources, "Hey, uh, Donny Hiebert, what, what do you think?" Because that doesn't come up. 55:22 That's, that's not part of your, your, your fact-checking and your auditing of the coaching staff. But let's, let's go back to it. I, I think this staff loves Earl Little. Yes. I th- I think Earl Little is a leader. 55:34 I would not... I- I bet if we take the total snap counts for FSU on defense and the total snap counts that Earl Little plays, it's gonna be pretty darn close to identical. 55:45 I think that's, I think that's the answer we're gonna find. Yeah. Maybe this is an NFL situation where, hey, you do well on special teams, you get the opportunity to do more. Uh, it's gonna be interesting. 55:56 It's gonna be fascinating [laughs] to see, uh, number 47 potentially line up in that defensive backfield for Florida State. 56:04 Uh, to round out everything here, I don't think there's anything else in the defensive secondary that necessarily jumps off the page at you. We've talked about Shyheim already being behind Ashland Barker. 56:13 Maybe a little bit surprised to see an or next to Edwin Joseph and KJ Kirkland. You would've thought that it would've been Earl, Edwin, KJ in those starting positions across rover safety, and then the other safety. 56:24 That or distinction, and again, depending on who you ask and how you wanna feel about it, that or distinction carries a lot of weight or it carries absolutely no weight whatsoever. 56:34 Oh, uh, well now that I look at it, Shamar Arnoux on the two deep as a true freshman defensive back. Doesn't happen very often. When's the last true defensive... Uh, where, when's the last true defenseman or... God. 56:45 When's the last true freshman defensive back, we got it that time, to have the potential starting playing time. Is it Ja- is it Jalen Ramsey or, um, or is it Derwin? 56:58 Jalen, because of injury, Jalen Ramsey started his first game. Jalen Ramsey started- Right... at Pittsburgh 2013. 57:04 Now, AZ Thomas played a little bit true freshman, but I mean, that wasn't a guy you counted on and he even started all that much until- It might be Derwin. Ooh, boy. Yeah. I think the staff likes Shamar Arnoux. 57:19 I, I think I asked the question to- I do too... uh, you know, to the coaching staff, you know, Pat Surtain included, "Do you still look at him as a freshman? 57:25 Do you have reservations about putting him out there against an Alabama?" Um, again, the opponent, I think, might make some decisions about y- you want guys with experience out there. 57:37 So I think they still view him as a freshman. He still makes freshman mistakes. When you hear that ad- admission voluntarily, um, y- you take it with a grain of salt. He needs experience. Yeah. 57:48 I still would say how much do we see of Shamar Arnoux week one versus he gets a lot of experience in these guaranteed games. 57:55 I have been beating that drum consistently, but if you're gonna pay, what, almost two million bucks to face East Texas A&M and Kent State, you better get guys some valuable playing time- Yes... 58:06 'cause that's where you get your money's worth. You want to get backups a- and just get them experience, 'cause that makes them feel better about the work they put in on the practice field. 58:16 If you're watching on the On CXL YouTube channel right now, first of all, thank you so much for participating in the show. 58:20 If you have any questions about this too deep, have any questions about what we think about the game com- coming on Saturday, anything that jumps off of you on the page that you wanna ask us about, uh, now is the time to do so before we close out the show. 58:30 Bob, your final thoughts on this depth chart. Your biggest surprise when looking at this depth chart probably... [laughs] I mean, I don't even wanna ask you that. It's gonna be Donny Hiebert. 58:39 Uh, let's ask you a different question. Uh, [laughs] yeah. Let's... Uh, w- I guess your biggest takeaway when looking at this depth chart, do you feel like... looking at this depth chart that everything has... 58:52 Like, the puzzle pieces are all forming together to make a roster that you feel is going to be more competitive in 2025 than it was last season? I, I think for almost every position it feels sensible. 59:03 Like, I can sit here and explain the reasoning of the coaches, the why makes sense. Again, we've hit on Donny quite a bit. I think that's one that, that doesn't make as much sense, 'cause we didn't see pre-season camp. 59:16 The, uh, we kinda hit on Chase Loftin a lot already, but Chase- Yeah... makes a lot of sense. It truly, truly does. I think, again, big story lines. We know there's a ton of ors here. 59:27 Mike Norvell loves them, but he's getting a lot of freshmen. Getting those freshmen out there, we're going to see freshmen against Alabama. I think that's a huge, huge thing for, uh, for this coaching staff, 59:40 just to be able to, again, say to all these prospects, 100 or more of them, "Hey, you've got a chance to play early." And not just, again, not against a bad team, but against potentially Alabama. 59:50 You're gonna get out there and, and see them. It, it feels like... I, I almost... I'd almost be curious to see these two depth charts side by side. 59:58 Like, what was the Florida State Georgia Tech depth chart from, you know, last August next to this one? Because- I'd be able to find that... they don't look at all the same, right? 1:00:08 I mean, this is, this is completely turned over. Um, so in addition to a new, new coaching staff, in addition to new coordinators, new players, all these transfers, all these freshmen, I mean, 1:00:26 I would venture a guess besides Roydell Williams and Daryl Jackson, there aren't that many guys- Yeah... that we saw week one against Georgia Tech and they are back on this depth chart. 1:00:39 Now, don't think Juice Cryer played against Georgia Tech, for example. I think Omar Graham did, but there's a lot on this depth chart that is totally, totally new. 1:00:51 And how that continuity works, how that communication works, who's got the green dot, there's a lot of just intrigue, right, over just how this all looks on, on paper on Monday.Let me see if I can pull this up really quickly, 'cause I'm actually fascinated to see. 1:01:11 Let me see. Oh, oh, hold your horses. Stop right there. Or not so fast. What, was it Lee Cor- Not so fast, Malcolm... not so fast. There we go. No. Is it gonna show up in the download, on the depth chart? 1:01:26 Ah, it's showing up as a web- Here, you know what? We're gonna do a read here. We're gonna do a read real quick. Apologies for not being able to put, um, uh, computer's just being, uh- Computer... 1:01:38 little bit, a little bit fuzzy here Not so hot Right, yep. Computers have Mondays too. At quarterback, DJ Uiagalelei, Brock Glenn, Luke Kronenhak, Roydell Williams, Kaziah Holmes, Cam Davis. 1:01:51 And there, there's an or between Kaziah Holmes and Cam Davis at that first running back position. Lawrence Tolofili, Jalen Lucas, Sam Singleton. 1:01:58 So now looking at this here, it does make sense that Jalen Lucas is at the running back position even though he's working a lot with the wide receivers. 1:02:07 So may- you know, you're putting square pegs in round holes and somehow that square peg is fitting, in other words. [laughs] Boy, is this a whiplash. Get ready for this. Malik Benson- Oh, it's worse... 1:02:21 Kentron Portier or Hakeem Williams at that first wide receiver position. That second wide recei- Oof... wide receiver position, Ja'Kie Douglas, Duce Spann, Elijah Moore. 1:02:33 That third wide receiver position, Jalen Brown, Darion Williamson or Lorraine McCoy. So obviously Lorraine not available for this upcoming, uh, season opener against Alabama. 1:02:44 He's gonna be back sooner rather than later according to the Florida State coaching staff. Are you ready for more whiplash, Bob? Mm-hmm. Kyle Morlock, Brian Courtney or Jaxson West at tight end, which is [whistles] wow. 1:03:00 [laughs] Darius Washington, Lucas Simmons at left tackle. Richie Leonard IV, Bryson Esees at left guard. Marie Smith, Andre Otto or Jacob Brizzi at center. 1:03:09 Obviously I think it's an interesting distinction, Jacob Brizzi, with an or tag in this depth chart at left guard and right guard, not center, although they do like him at both. 1:03:19 So interesting that they're, they're going more towards the center side of things or, or excuse me, the guard side of things. [sighs] Keondre Jones or TJ Ferguson at right guard. 1:03:31 Jeremiah Byers, Robert Scott, Jaylen Early at right tackle. God, looking back, Bob, what the hell were they doing at right tackle? The, uh, the, I mean, I mean- It's not just the right guard. It's the entire depth chart. 1:03:42 It's, it's almost the entire offensive depth chart that's, you know- It is... twos or threes. Now, to be fair to Robert Scott, to be fair to Robert Scott, he was so injured that him being on the field was 1:03:57 almost an, an act of God. I mean, like he was not supposed to be playing. But Jeremiah Byers was a whole different degree of booty on the football field that they almost needed him to play at some times. 1:04:10 And then Jaylen Early, obviously, it's, it's hard to say what a loss that is because you really don't know what he would've done this season. But you still hope that he would've been here, right? 1:04:23 You still, you still hope that, that he would've had a role here. The whiplash gets worse, Bob. It gets worse. [laughs] Now obviously different defensive schemes, it's not gonna line up 100% the same way here. 1:04:38 Stra- weak side defensive end, Patrick Payton, Sione, Sione Loloaaga. God, Patrick Payton isn't a name that I've thought about in a long time. First defensive tackle position, Josh Farmer, KJ Samson, Tomiwa Darajaye. 1:04:53 Now that's a name I also haven't heard in a long time. Where did, where, where did he go? Did he go back to the Big 12? Did he go back to West Virginia? Look that up for me real quick. I'm going Google. Holy moly. 1:05:05 Darryl Jackson Jr., Daniel Lyons. Hey, you know what? That one's not so different. Until you get to- He's still at, at Illinois. [laughs] Illinois. Okay. 1:05:15 That, that, that part's not so different until you get to Grady Kelly, 6'2", 295 pounds. Where... Uh, look that one up too. God, if... Where did he go? Strong side defensive end, Marvin Jones Jr., Byron Turner Jr. 1:05:33 The juniors of former players that just... Or not by, well, but not, Byron Turner wasn't a f- his father wasn't a former Seminole. I'm thinking of Boots. I'm thinking of Lamont. Grady Kelly- Linebacker... 1:05:45 beat Michigan State for Grady Kelly. Okay. Linebacker, if, oh, the first linebacker position, Cam Riley, Blake Nicholson, DeMarko Ward. DJ Lundy, Omar Graham or Justin Cryer for the second linebacker position. 1:06:05 It, it's funny 'cause you take a look at the linebacker room from this year to last year, and it's like you, you look back at last year, like the names there don't sound bad in terms of like experience, 1:06:19 but then you watch whatever that vomit was on the field in Ireland and you're just like, "Jesus Christ." I, well, I guess, I guess the caveat in the context is that DJ Lundy was also banged up, if I remember correctly. 1:06:30 And he shouldn't have been playing in Ireland either, but he played injured. Not to excuse the play that DJ Lundy, uh, had in his final season, of course. Nickel. 1:06:41 There's, now there's no nickel on the current depth chart. But last year, and if you're just joining us here at the end, we're going through last year's depth chart compared to this year's depth chart. 1:06:49 At nickel cornerback, Kevin Knowles II or Earl Little Jr. or Jabril Rawls. So the, similar names here, but obviously Jabril getting the starting nod this year. 1:07:01 Far side corner, Se- Fentrell Cypress II, Quindarius Jones, Kai Bates. No Charles Lester, or at least not in that position. Sorry. He, he is later down the depth chart.Buck, uh, buck safety. 1:07:17 Strong side safety, uh, for the less educated [laughs] including myself. Uh, Shaheen Brown, KJ Kirkland. Uh, free safety, DeVante Brown or Conrad Hussey. Ugh, wow. 1:07:31 And then of course the other cornerback position you'd have Zahrae Thomas, Edwin Joseph, or Charles Lester III. How's that for some whiplash, huh? That [laughs] - The entire fifth quarter... that's almost frightening. 1:07:47 The entire fifth quarter. That is- Yeah... that is frightening. That is a horror show in terms of flipped production or flipped rosters. 1:08:01 Names that you, names that were so irrelevant on that football team that you almost forgot they existed, and this is coming from people that cover this team for a living. I, I would not blame anybody 1:08:17 as a fan who does not remember [laughs] who does not remember who the hell Tumie Wa- Durra Jai he was. 1:08:28 [laughs] Or, or a Brian Courtney or a Jackson West who, I think Brian Courtney went to West Kentucky, Western Kentucky or something like that, or maybe that was Jackson West, one of the two, or like a DeVante Brown. 1:08:39 To think that they almost brought in DeVante Brown the previous season, not last season, the year before that, before he went to Miami, and I don't know what Mario Cristobal did with him that messed him up so bad. 1:08:48 If, if, if that is what happened. And you know, I, I mean, we didn't talk about it here, but Ryan Fitzgerald, Alex Mastermano, your specialist, best position group on the team. 1:08:58 Uh, and your kick returners J- there are no kick returners here on this depth chart, I just realized that. I don't know, I, I don't know whether, I don't think they're hiding anything, it might just be an omission. 1:09:09 But, uh, Jaylen Lucas, Duce Mann is your kick returner on the, uh, the 2024 depth chart. Roydel Williams and Keziah Holmes at kick returner is really funny. 1:09:20 Uh, and then your punt returner, Malik Benson or Jalen Lucas or Lorraine McCoy. Obviously Lorraine McCoy took over that position as the season went on. Well, that was an absolutely disgusting and horrifying 1:09:35 run down memory lane. That is wild. It, it, you don't realize how much that roster has changed until you put it side by side. It genuinely is... 1:09:54 W- what was the magic number, Bob, 40? 40 guys? Around there? Yeah, I think it might've hit 44 when you count what high school, junior college edition, transfer portal. 1:10:07 And now North Carolina, Bill Belichick hit the reset button, that's 70 new players, 'cause he talked about this at ACC kickoff. 70 is a lot. But when you talk about just a depth chart turnover like this, 1:10:20 I've been covering this program a long time, and Nick, you've been following this program for a long time. Yeah. I'm not sure we've seen this type of depth chart turnover. 1:10:30 Yes, there was coaching change there from Jimbo to Tagger to Norvell, but I don't think we saw this type of dramatic, dramatic turnover, starters, backups, reserves. And you know what's funny? 1:10:45 Is, and I don't know if you feel this way too, but it felt like it could've been worse. It felt like it could've been worse. In what ways, Nick? In terms of guys leaving, because, like, 1:10:56 there wa- there was smoke, and I expect there to be smoke again this off-season. 1:11:01 But there was, I remember all of this smoke and, and mirrors that, um, Surtan was going to take another head coaching job or he wanted to go to the NFL. 1:11:09 If that happens, that, that defensive backroom, all hells br- all hell breaks loose, right? Yes. 1:11:15 But I, uh, the, and there we- and not to say that there were guys that you lost last off-season that you really didn't wanna lose, a la Luke Kronahk, a la Jalen Early. 1:11:27 There, there are definitely some pieces that you lost last portal season that you didn't want to lose, but it just didn't feel like a whole lot left. 1:11:39 But you still bring in so many new players and it, it, even still it feels like such a completely new roster, and maybe that is truly college football in 2025. But don't you think this could've been worse? 1:11:52 A- and, and by worse I mean in terms of, you know, uh, uh, Bill Belichick reaching 70 new players on your roster, right? Feels like it could've been worse, doesn't it? 1:12:04 And, and hate to play the what if games, I'm, I'm happy he's on this roster. People are still gonna be skeptical of Darryl Jackson until they see it week in, week out with some type of consistency. Right. Right. 1:12:13 But he was entered into the NFL draft. 1:12:17 Now, the timeline of when did these conversations happen with Odell and Coach Knighton and Coach Norvell, there were discussions that he might still jump in the portal even after he had, you know, said, "I'm gonna go look at the NFL draft." 1:12:31 What if you lose a, a potential centerpiece like a Darryl Jackson, and you're a centerpiece in a three three five if you are 337 pounds o- of Darryl Jackson. 1:12:43 [laughs] So yeah, I mean, there could've been, there could've been a lot more change. And, and still it feels... But I think you're right. I think this is a little bit of college football in 2025. Um, 1:12:56 I, I read about this a f- month, two, whatever back. 1:13:00 I think if you came back, if you lived through 13 and one and two and 10, and you have eligibility left and you wanna be here, and Mike Norvell wants you to be here, it says a little bit about you as a human being a- and, and your character. 1:13:15 I know there's a lot of people off that two and 10 roster that you probably wish were gone, right? But it does say something aboutHey, you're, you're still here, you're still working. Nothing was given. 1:13:28 Not a starting job was given to you in, in December by staying, but, but you're back. 1:13:33 So I think there is a little bit of that mindset discussion to me that I think is, is really interesting about those guys who came back and have, and have kinda lived through the true roller coaster of the highs and lows. 1:13:44 But I, you know, I hadn't thought about it until we were talking it through and comparing that depth chart. It's just an insanely dramatic, uh, turnaround. 1:13:53 We've definitely gone over our time allotment here, but I feel like that was worth it. That was great. I enjoyed that [laughs] very thoroughly. It's almost time, ladies and gentlemen. 1:14:02 It is almost time for Florida State football. August 30th is just around the corner. It's the perfect time to join theosceola.com. 1:14:08 You can get 30% off an annual subscription and get a $25 voucher to Alumni Hall with that subscription to The Osceola. It's a great deal. Take advantage of it. Get that $25 voucher. 1:14:19 Come see a game in the newly renovated Doak Campbell Stadium. Spend your money on some merchandise. Hey, if you got kids, get them, get them, get them something nice to remember their experience by. 1:14:28 That, that $25 voucher to Alumni Hall is definitely gonna help. But, of course, what's gonna help you even more is an Osceola subscription. 1:14:38 So you can get content like this, you can get writing from Bob and myself and Jerry, and all the news that you expect from Florida State athletics. No BS, no clickbait, everything that you need to know. 1:14:48 Newsletter every single day, Bob. Newsletter every single day with exactly what you need to know about Florida State athletics. I'm, I'm excited. I really am excited. It's almost here. Yeah, you can feel it, man. 1:15:02 You can feel it tinkling. [laughs] It feels like it was the longest off-season. I think we said this last week. Has this not been the longest off-season from the end of 2024 to now? 1:15:11 Because, again, you don't have a bowl game. You've got the- No... the coaching searches on, on- Yeah... the assistants, and what's gonna happen in the portal, the revolving door there. 1:15:19 It feels like it has taken us forever to get to game week, but, but we're here, thankfully, mercifully, finally. [laughs] More on theosceola.com. Uh, Norvell's gonna be meeting with us a couple more times this week. 1:15:32 We're gonna get some more players this week. There's gonna be a ton of more content on theosceola do- osceola do- uh, pfft. We're going too fast. Trying to end the show too fast here. 1:15:40 There's gonna be more content on theosceola.com and The Osceola YouTube channel, so make sure you're subscribed there, uh, or subscribed here, and, uh, subscribed to The Osceola as well. 1:15:48 Bob, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. We'll be, uh, we'll be back later in the week, uh, before kickoff. My name is Nick Carlisle, staff writer and recruiting writer for theosceola.com. 1:15:56 That is Bob Ferrante, the head editor. Have a great rest of your Monday. Try to contain your excitement. Florida State football is almost back. We'll see you all another time.
